Sorry, you’re right. The original person you responded to was pushing back against someone saying

Ask yourself why the question on every MSM article is about bidens age instead of trumps pedophilia, then you’ll see why we like to blame the media

He’s definitely a rapist, no doubt about that. Appreciate you linking the case, too. But just because his being on Epsteins flight logs isn’t blowing up in the same way Biden getting pressured out of his campaign is blowing up, doesn’t mean the media is trying to get Trump elected. They’re advancing their own interests, for sure, and those interests are inherently capitalistic, but to say or infer this push to replace Biden is originating as a right wing media campaign to get Trump elected is just nonsense to me.

Dude, just because someone thinks another Democrat has a better chance at beating Trump doesn’t mean they are a “both sider.” Nor does it automatically make them an idiot. That is just reductive and dismissive on your part.

No one is saying Biden is just as bad as Trump, or Democrats are just as bad as Republicans. We’re saying Biden doesn’t have a chance at beating Trump and we need a stronger candidate.

They’ve got a candidate that can literally be criminally charged and it won’t matter. We’ve got a candidate who voter will stay home for because he’s old. That’s a huge problem.

Exactly, we all know Trump has said lots of pedophilic things, but unfortunately there is no hard proof ( yet – I’m fairly convinced there is some, out there), so a prosecution couldn’t really do anything.

But it doesn’t matter at the end of the day. The dudes a convicted felon. It doesn’t affect his electability. Yeah, the news should report on it. But they can’t call him a pedophile outright, and anything short of that just bleeds into the rest of the unsavoury reports about Trump for the past 10 years. Republicans just don’t care, or believe its all some Democratic plot or some shit.

Meanwhile, pressure from Biden’s own party for him to step away from the nomination? That shit is wild (in terms of news story), it’s legitimate, and it will get clicks. Any self-interested news organization is going to report on that, because it’s what is going on, and it is juicy.

Pandoras box has been opened, Democrats can’t just ask voters to shut their eyes and ignore the drama. Something needs to be done. Joe Biden has tried to alleviate the pressure, but it didn’t stick. We’ll have to see what happens at his new conference today, if it isn’t him stepping down, already.

Because that’s what Democrats in Congress are talking about? Because that conversation has historical and political implications for Democrats? Because donors are dropping support for Biden daily? That shit is pretty important news when it bears weight on who is going to be the Democratic nominee. How could they not run those stories? That’s not to say the mainstream media is some completely benign institution, or that it isn’t going to go against it’s own interests (ie, profit, or making money in general), or that every article about this situation has been warranted (like, any that call for people to not vote or vote third party are definitely in service of Trump’s campaign). It absolutely serves corporate interests, which align with its own, for the most part.

But Trump being a convicted felon and yet-to-be-convicted pedophile has zero implications for Republicans and, evidently, his chance of winning the election. His electability isn’t tied to his morals. We learned this in 2016. Whereas some Democrats have standards, some have fears of their own electability if they double down on Biden, and others believe that sending Biden against Trump is political suicide for the Democratic party. I’m not sure how any of that is the media’s fault.

Difference is, no republican cares if Trump is mentally fit to be president, nor will being mentally unfit cause him to lose the election.

Democrats and Biden on the other hand…

Don’t listen to these people who call you some sort of Russian bot. They want to shut their eyes and pretend like nothing is wrong, while we are on the verge of an authoritarian Trump presidency.

Edit: for the record, if Joe Biden is the nominee, you still gotta vote for him. I’m not saying otherwise

There was effectively no primary – no legitimate other candidate was on the ballot in my state – because they fed us the impression that Biden was totally fine cognitively.

And then the debate happened. There was no realistic way anybody but Joe Biden came out of this primary, and I think that in itself is pretty anti-democratic.

Not that any of it matters in the end, because Biden is not going to step aside and I don’t think Democrats have the power to push him to the side.

Still has a hidden card or two? Sounds pretty absurd to me. Honestly – and I don’t want to sound like a dick, so I really do apologize – but this comment sounds like a deluded sports fan in denial that their team is not going to make it out of the playoffs.

I don’t think the ship sailed if so many top Democrats and donors called for him to step aside. Evidently they didn’t think the ship had sailed yet, so I’m apt to believe them more than a superfan.

But right now, it’s looking like the snowball did not gain enough momentum to become an avalanche, and Biden will still be the candidate in all likelihood.

Yeah, I agree, although I suspect both of us are wrong rather than neither of us being wrong haha

Gotcha about the ad buys though. We’ll just have to see what happens I guess. Bottom line though, vote blue no matter who.

Are you saying the all congressional Democrats, and all liberal voters across the US who’ve called for new party leadership are somehow secret conservatives?

Where is this coming from? I literally just want the best chance of beating Trump and Biden ain’t it.

Sorry, I don’t think I’m following your logic – Trump is worried about Biden quitting, so the Republican party is pushing the narrative for Biden to do just that?

Also, how in the world is the news “insert moderate Democrat here says Biden should step aside,” originating from the right? It’s literally coming from the mouth of a leftist politician.

I can see right wingers pushing the “don’t vote” narrative, but the calls to step aside? I don’t think so. We all saw the debate, and we’ve all been saying for years that we wish we had a younger candidate. It just so happens that, after Biden’s debate performance, we don’t think it’s possible to win against Trump without one.

Really not sure where anyone is getting these “the calls to step down originate from the right” conspiracy theories.

Edit: Ah, I see. There is no logic. So much for Democrats being about reality and facts.

You make reasonable points, but here are a couple light rebuttals which ultimately amount to my idea that the risks of replacing Biden outweigh the risks of keeping him on the ticket.

I’m skeptical of the candidate even having to set up a full campaign, because they’ll have the name recognition already. If it’s the result of 5 debates between younger Democrats including Harris, that is going to be blasted on every news channel. Not to mention, a giant campaign isn’t exactly helping Biden. The negative press alone from them trying to shield him probably set him back enough that he’ll lose.

Regarding the ads having already been reserved, I won’t pretend to know how any of that works, but wouldn’t you think that would also hinder Trump? As all his ads would be toward Biden and not the candidate? He would somehow have to pivot his attacks. Harris is easier for Trump to attack, because he’s been doing it for years now, along with Fox News. Regardless, I don’t find much sway in that argument , just because I’m not sure ads are really going to do much to swing moderate or independent voters.

I don’t think the public is politically aware enough to realize Harris is the “next in line,” as you infer, so I really don’t think they’d be alienating black or female voters.

(Side note: I think the whole idea of Harris being the one to be “passed over” is such a bullshit modern political take. Just like how it was Hillary’s turn, or Biden’s turn. That kinda shit is what got us here now, instead of choosing the best candidate we always seem to choose the one who should be, or who is due next. Really fucking frustrating.)

Finally, the media is already having a feeding frenzy on Biden, a well-tested candidate with lots of experience. He is down in the polls in swing states, he’s getting grilled by his own party, and his numerous attempts of damage control have done little to assuage the concerns from congresspeople, but I’d also guess voters, as well. I’m sorry but I just don’t think Biden can beat Trump, and I think he should step aside for either Harris or, in my preference, let the DNC shake it out with some debates.

I mean, the age thing has been a concern for a while, but Democratic messaging really played it down, and the State of the Union was also a pretty good reliever in that sense. But the debate was a lot lot worse than the State of the Union, and that just completely shattered the illusion that Biden is in command, in terms of not only his own health but in the election, itself.

You’re asking why now? Well, the debate is what sparked this. But now is the time because we are afraid of what a Trump presidency could mean, especially after the Supreme Court decisions last week. Now is the time because the debate just exposed Biden’s greatest electability weakness (not, necessarily, his ability to make decisions based an a talented and experienced group of advisors). And now is the time because we think he won’t win, and that this whole time the United States have been asking for a younger candidate, so why don’t we give them one?

I don’t think you really need a Republican conspiracy behind all that to explain why there is such panic in the democratic party right now. But thanks for answering my question genuinely.

Could you describe the push you’re referring to? We all saw the debate, then the poll drop, then the calls for Biden to step aside. Which of those events have republicans behind them? We all just want the best chance at beating Trump, and many of us think that’s not Biden. I don’t think the media is to blame for reporting on what each congressperson is saying – that’s kinda their job, and that’s whats going to get clicks – but I do think they are to blame for the opinion articles that are saying “I’m not voting, you shouldn’t either.” Obviously that is horseshit. If Biden’s the nominee, you gotta vote for him. But I struggle to think that the drama surrounding Biden’s candidacy is somehow sparked by some hidden republicans pulling the strings. The dude just performed really poorly in a debate that he himself wanted, and then he doubled down with some awful awful soundbites about him being okay with Trump winning, as long as he tried his best.

Its like dude, have some fuckin awareness. The stakes aren’t low enough for you to be self satisfied with doing your best.

I suppose the difference in our line of thinking is that you see it as one united entity, whereas I see it as a lot of divided individuals. There is no consensus in the Democratic party right now regarding Biden’s candidacy, so it might as well be two groups of people. Yeah, they could do it they wanted to. The problem is, they don’t all want to. There are many interests in play, which is a shame because the stakes of the election, but it’s just the truth. Case Biden.

Also, I get we’re on the Internet, but it’s pretty rude to bruh everything someone says. Pretending like what I’m saying is somehow an egregious leap of logic doesn’t actually lend itself to your side of the conversation. And if it is a leap of logic and you correct me, I’m much more likely to be swayed to your side if you’re conversationally curious rather than combative. Just saying.

It’s all good. Honestly I think if a debate gets media attention for Dems, I’m all for it. Even if it’s just performative for Harris publicity, even though I’m not thrilled about her, I think the media attention and getting her name out there would be a good thing for November. Obviously that’s all a huge “if” depending on Biden being in or out, which if I had to guess, this whole conversation will be moot in 7 weeks.

Sure, but I don’t think they have as much power as you’re making out, not because they don’t technically have that power, but because of the consequences of using it. I.e. the moderate establishment democratic party. I think there are political interests in place that prevent what you’re talking about from happening.

What the heck dude, that’s not true. I think you may have misinterpreted me. I never said a mini primary was an opportunity for a progressive candidate to slip in there, or anything about some weird progressive purity test. Jeez. I mean, I’d obviously prefer a more progressive candidate, but I’m in agreement with you that if for whatever reason Biden steps aside, it’s almost certainly going to be Harris or another, (relatively) young moderate.

I said the mini primary was being spit balled in Congress, so the idea of Biden not being the nominee is not out of the realm of reality. That was my point, not that Democrats have to throw AOC or Buttigieg in order to win, or that it is even remotely likely they’ll do that. It’s not.

As in, they’d all have to come to a consensus on one candidate other than Biden, and that’s just not a likely thing to happen without Biden stepping aside voluntarily.

I just don’t see the DNC changing rules to choose someone besides Biden, even if that is technically possible. I could see them adding rules for what happens to delegates if a presumptive nominee steps aside before the convention. But hey, I’m a regular person who read a single article on DNC rules and listens to NPR Politics Podcast. Those kinds of analyses aren’t going to delve too far into the, “well, what if the DNC changes the rules, holds a mini primary without Biden, etc, etc.” because they either think they aren’t likely, or because it is simply too early to tell which way things will move as of today.