Not sure if this violates rules, but this is breaking news and the primary source. Local news video.

17th house Democrat calls for Biden to step down. Post NATO-news conference, 6:30 Pacific Time

  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I pointed out in our last scuffle that I was a supporter of Biden stepping down. Multiple times. What I opposed was the presumption that, if he did not, allowing fascism to win was a morally acceptable alternative, like you suggested.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Welp…it’s over folks. To those continually downvoting me because you can’t face facts, it’s time. As a staunch Democrat, I cannot bring myself to support that man any longer. Either find a new candidate or this will be the first presidential election I don’t vote in.

        This wasn’t the original message as you edited it, the original was more explicit that you were actively refusing to vote against fascism if it came down to fascism or Biden, but it’s close enough to the original in meaning.

        • Coach@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Yup, I said “go fascism.” I see it, right there. If I squeeze my eyes really tightly.

          Again, it’s this “fascism or else” distillation that is going to drive people away from politics and the polls, not towards.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Yup, I said “go fascism.” I see it, right there. If I squeeze my eyes really tightly.

            You said that in the case of fascism against Biden, you would let fascism win. Pretty unambiguous.

            And then tried to bothsides fascism with Biden by calling the presumption that the opposition was literally fucking fascism as insufficiently nuanced view of the race. Because, as we all know, Trump et co are very complex. They definitely aren’t fascists with their masks all the way off.

            • Coach@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Again, you can’t read and I can’t rationalize with someone so defensive. Have a good one.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Again, you can read

                Yes, hence why I was able to parse you saying

                And distilling the complexities of American leadership and our standing in the world into fascism vs. dementia is just naïve and simpleminded.

                In a discussion about whether or not voting against fascism was necessary to not be pro-fascist (PROTIP: it is). If there is complexity in this, it is on the Democratic side, which is a mess and a big tent with a shitty candidate at the moment. There’s no ‘complexity’ about the fascism that Trump et co are peddling. When I asked you to explain this, you refused, what, three times?

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I think it will be a much harder fight if Biden does not step down, and that he has a duty to the country to step down.

        Whether he can win it? It would be entirely on anti-Trump sentiment, and not at all because of his influence - which, at this point, is overall detrimental to the ticket.

        Let’s put it this way - it’s a tough race, and Biden was supposed to be an extra sail for the ship. Only he turned out to be a bit of debris jutting out of the side, slowing the ship down. CAN this ship still beat the opposing one in the race? Potentially, if our ship is otherwise fast or the opposing ship slows. But it sure as hell isn’t going to be because we had some piece of rotting wood dragging in the water behind us.

        • Coach@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Biden was supposed to be an extra sail for the ship.

          An “extra sail”? He’s the president. It’s a presidential campaign. He is the ship and it’s completely submerged.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            I’m sorry that you think that most Americans think like you, and would prefer to let fascism win than elect a shitty candidate to the presidency. The reality in a two-party system like our’s, and especially one with a grotesque candidate like Trump on the opposing ticket, is that people are voting for parties every bit as much as candidates.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                It’s related to a different conversation we had, and discussed in the comments here regarding not voting against Trump, not a direct line drawn from “Biden is sunk” to “I should let fascism win”.

        • Coach@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          But you think he should still serve as president? At this apparent diminished capacity?

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            No, ideally he’d step down from the presidency too, but that’s less realistic to expect. Replacement as the candidate, on the other hand, has a real chance at this point in time.