Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez came out in support of President Joe Biden amid growing calls in the Democratic Party for Biden to drop out of the 2024 race.
And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.
A list of people you’d like in the job isn’t as relevant. I would’ve accepted almost any of the names people had floated, had any of them publicly shown interest.
But here we are with people often demanding Jon Stewart and Michelle Obama throw their hats in the ring, and that’s two people who keep saying they aren’t interested.
No one who wants to run in 2028 is going to run against the incumbent President unless that President is incredibly weak.
Biden in 2020 was solid, but even he had a close win over Trump. Biden 2022 was starting to show signs of wear (understandably so), but planning for 2024 made sense. Not my favorite choice, but I don’t think it was necessarily wrong. 2024 SOTU Biden scared Republicans so much they made up all sorts of drug rumors.
Jump to 1st Debate 2024 Biden. That was his first real misstep. Biden can recover from this.
Biden was far from my first choice in 2020, but he’s done a great job. He needs to get out there and prove it. Showcase what he’s done and pitch a plan for a future America.
Right now I don’t know if Biden can do that. I saw parts of it during the debate, but I want more. Biden should be able to convince his own party he has what it takes to win. Biden isn’t incredibly weak at the moment, but he’s getting weaker.
At the end of the day I’m voting for Biden (or his replacement) because I believe in Democrat policy. I’m not just voting “against Trump”, I believe Democratic policy is better for Americans and the American people. Republican policy, especially under Trump, isn’t even worth considering, it’s fascism and I don’t mean that hyperbolically.
If Biden can’t beat Democrats, Biden can’t beat Trump and that’s a big fuckin concern to me.
Also, since you’re looking for a name, Newsom has made it clear he is going to run in 2028. Will he run if Biden steps down? That’s debatable. It’s going to be a tough race and a loss in 2024 probably means no chance of running in 2028. There is a chance no one can beat Trump (and that’s even scarier).
(Also to anyone on the fence, Fuck Trump. Get your ass to the voting booth on election day and vote Biden.)
They keep asking for names then stop responding when you give them one. Hilariously unserious people who just want to scream that we have zero other options as loud as possible.
Because they don’t want to undermine the party and an incumbent candidate. But, if the party opened it up and asked, “Who wants to be President?,” there’d be a rush like Black Friday.
There were 27 candidates for the nomination in 2020, but none of them are still interested?
Well yeah, it’s standard bad faith practice to keep getting stuck on ‘name someone’. That question is an obvious mind-trap that stifles the real point no one from the pro Biden camp wants to concede: Biden is an objectively bad candidate that may lose.
This bad faith argument is not their creation, nor does it really matter.
The DNC will not listen to its constituents (let alone a Lemmy thread)and hold a primary to let Democrats choose a different candidate. No one paying any attention believes that.
The argument serves two purposes i think, to skirt around the fact the DNC doesn’t represent us and won’t hold a primary no matter what , and to keep any real discussion of ranked choice or third party voting from even starting.
Because the DNCs plan to run against fascists forever only works if we stay in a FFTP system like this
Yeah im tempted try an “ignore previous instructions” on some of em they’re so insistent, but my father-in-law sounds just like 'em so i know they are actually real people. His first time voting in his whole entire life was in '20 and now that he has “become political” (his words) he feels comfortable lecturing anyone on politics. He will never see how asinine that is or question the narrative the TV tells him. I figure trump brought a lot of people like that out of the woodwork.
We’d love to, but Biden killed primaries and caucuses. And there’s not a Democrat in existence that will go up against the DNC’s hand-picked candidate after their behavior over the last decade.
Nothing conspiratorial about it. Anyone with half a brain could tell from their tradition of not holding a primary at all when there’s an incumbent, as well as their stacking the deck in favor of their chosen candidates in the two previous ones.
You’re acting as if the DNC is a political party that only does what the voters ask for, rather than a for profit private corporation, which is what it’s legally registered as and behaving like.
I wonder how much of it is just undermining Biden. I lump this in with the “just any third party” people. It doesn’t make sense unless your goal is to just undermine Biden to bemoan his situation and the party without rallying behind something more specific. The “just any third party” implies the person is equally stoked about the chances of a Green Party or a Libertarian candidate, which makes no sense given the vastly different platforms.
I remember when RBG said the same thing. “Who would you rather see on the court other than me?” The answer is literally anyone else who isn’t a christofascist rapist, but they ended up with that one christofascist rapist.
JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, perhaps Gavin Newsom. Even Kamala Harris would have a better chance than Biden. Next to no one is voting Democratic because of Biden, people are voting against Trump. You could swap in literally anyone who isn’t 90% corpse and get at least as good a result, and almost certainly better. This idea that people would be turned off the Democrats because Joe Biden wasn’t the candidate is a joke and I don’t understand why anyone would be under the impression.
Yes, Literally anybody! What a silly premise for question… This is Hillary Clinton all over again. Democrats are being force fed the worst possible candidate we can get.
With that said, Kamala Harris is the best answer I think, for logistical reasons. But let her choose a good running mate that may bring some excitement and I think the democratic voters may come out to vote.
I would be willing to believe JB could do it. don’t know enough about Whitmer, think that Newsom has a chance but could just as easily be a Mitt Romney, and personally think you’re a little out to lunch if you actually think Kamala would win when Hilary didn’t.
Post debate polls have had Harris up on Biden in swing states. Could she win? Maybe, maybe not. But it looks like she’d at least lose less badly than Biden. His debate performance was a death blow.
Kamala has been polling better then Biden. the problem isn’t her popularity, it’s Biden looking like he’s died but doctors have refused to call it so they keep dragging him around. he even tried to salvage his debate performance with an interview with Stephanopoulos and still looked dead.
idk if anyone believes he can take another 4 years without the doctors finally calling it and Kamala replacing him anyway. like, people who think Kamala can’t be a better president than TFG would probably vote TFG anyway.
also it’s not like Biden won last time because everybody loves him. no one does. I’ve never seen an actual fan. he won mostly through negative partisanship against TFG.
I actually think he’s a pretty good president, who got a lot done quietly, including getting through some bipartisan stuff (when he didn’t have a majority across both houses) that I don’t think many other people would have managed because he’s gently spoken and not a tub thumping shouter. I think he has a good heart even if his politics are noticeably further to the right than mine.
AOC would be great. She gets it. She understands ordinary people, which is rare in US politics. Biden is pretty good. Not great at all, just pretty good.
I like that he’s not in the news every day (saying something stupid or nasty showing that he doesn’t understand how stuff works or can’t take criticism like Toddler-brained Trump), but the downside of quietly getting on with the job is that people aren’t as aware of what he’s done.
I already told you my two requisistes, three if you count having a pulse, you should ask the DNC what people their donors would allow to run. I’m sure they have a list of marketable 45-65 white heirs who would love to keep everything exactly as is they’d support.
It may also be a little late to introduce a new candidate, unless they have great name recognition. Betcha Bernie 2.0 would mobilize a goodly number of people, while centrists would hold their noses, and just vote for Not Trump.
Bernie isn’t running, and Biden isn’t quitting, so we take what we can get. At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.
Offering to run instead of Biden at this point would basically be political suicide, so it’s no wonder nobody has stepped up. If Biden backs out though the math changes significantly. This is t a very convincing argument.
Democrats can’t name someone until Biden agrees or they have a majority ready to try to force him out. It really is Biden’s decision to step aside. The issue is the polls are saying he should step aside, and it looks like he wants to lose.
Dude, anyone. Who in the democratic party is more corrupt than Trump? To paraphrase Biden himself, there are at least fifty people that could win against Trump.
I hope Biden is one of the fifty right now… But I am not certain.
I don’t think the opinion “the man who has control of the nuclear arsenal is showing signs of senility and should not serve another 4 years regardless of who replaces him” is not an unreasonable one
When the current only alternative is someone with clearly worse faculties and intentions, it obviously fucking is. Again, name who you think can beat him. Go ahead. Take into account the entire current political climate. We’ll wait.
this is kinda a ridiculous request. The DNC should be the ones actively finding and presenting alternatives. If it was any other election year what if something happened to their primary candidate?
No one publicly shows interest because the party prevents any alternative. Anyone trying to run is accused of trying to break up the party, look at what happened to Bernie.
I advocated for Bernie, during the primaries, when it was time to choose a Democratic candidate. Note that that time is not now. Now is the time where a democratic candidate need to beat Trump. Do you think even swapping Bernie in now that he could beat Trump?
Do you think even swapping Bernie in now that he could beat Trump?
This question broke me. If the left-leaning voting population of the USA can’t support a single candidate against freaking Trump except Biden then we deserve whatever disaster occurs. That’s embarrassing. Truly childish levels of spitefulness.
Or just that some people dont have any problem supporting Biden right now. Internet’s full of loud assholes during on hills, thats what makes you successful here.
Not trying to question your motives here (seriously, I’m not) but I grimace hearing “we’re only months away from the election, we couldn’t possibly make changes now” because it has a perverse similarity to the argument Mitch McConnell used to ratfuck his way into an extra SC justice. And we all know how that turned out.
The Polymarket prediction markets gives odds for who will win the presidential election and who will win the democratic nominee. We can compare the odds of each candidate and use Bayes Theorem to determine their chances of winning the presidency if they secure the DNC nomination.
Obviously this doesn’t work perfectly (the Michelle Obama example especially is bizarre), but there is over $300M behind these numbers so people seem to think they’re at least somewhat accurate.
TLDR: there is a lot of money that thinks Joe Biden is one of the worst options
I disagree. My logic is as follows:
Premise 1. Joe Biden cannot beat Trump
Premise 2: Virtually any other democrat can beat Trump
Conclusion: If we want to beat Trump, Biden should step down and be replaced by virtually any other Democrat
Because last time he beat Trump it was because Covid was the top worry and of course people want the party that promotes health care over Trump when their biggest fear is a global pandemic. Now peoples fears are money. You run the same campaign you ran in 2020 and you’ll lose.
Yes. There’s partisans who vote Trump no matter what, but there’s also a pretty large number of “low information voters”. Rather than being necessarily dumb, many of these are people from all kinds of different walks of life who just don’t follow politics that closely and prefer to follow things like dating reality shows or sports instead. These people are not really aware of what happened on Jan 6 other than that there was some sort of riot at the Capitol. They know Trump was charged with a bunch of crimes, but don’t know if they were real crimes or just politics. And when these people see Trump lying confidently and Joe Biden being barely intelligible in response, they like Trump better.
It sucks, yes. But it’s reality. Democrats need someone who can answer Trump forcefully. Or they will lose.
Removed by mod
And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.
A list of people you’d like in the job isn’t as relevant. I would’ve accepted almost any of the names people had floated, had any of them publicly shown interest.
But here we are with people often demanding Jon Stewart and Michelle Obama throw their hats in the ring, and that’s two people who keep saying they aren’t interested.
Edit: the shit people downvote here.
No one who wants to run in 2028 is going to run against the incumbent President unless that President is incredibly weak.
Biden in 2020 was solid, but even he had a close win over Trump. Biden 2022 was starting to show signs of wear (understandably so), but planning for 2024 made sense. Not my favorite choice, but I don’t think it was necessarily wrong. 2024 SOTU Biden scared Republicans so much they made up all sorts of drug rumors.
Jump to 1st Debate 2024 Biden. That was his first real misstep. Biden can recover from this.
Biden was far from my first choice in 2020, but he’s done a great job. He needs to get out there and prove it. Showcase what he’s done and pitch a plan for a future America.
Right now I don’t know if Biden can do that. I saw parts of it during the debate, but I want more. Biden should be able to convince his own party he has what it takes to win. Biden isn’t incredibly weak at the moment, but he’s getting weaker.
At the end of the day I’m voting for Biden (or his replacement) because I believe in Democrat policy. I’m not just voting “against Trump”, I believe Democratic policy is better for Americans and the American people. Republican policy, especially under Trump, isn’t even worth considering, it’s fascism and I don’t mean that hyperbolically.
If Biden can’t beat Democrats, Biden can’t beat Trump and that’s a big fuckin concern to me.
Also, since you’re looking for a name, Newsom has made it clear he is going to run in 2028. Will he run if Biden steps down? That’s debatable. It’s going to be a tough race and a loss in 2024 probably means no chance of running in 2028. There is a chance no one can beat Trump (and that’s even scarier).
(Also to anyone on the fence, Fuck Trump. Get your ass to the voting booth on election day and vote Biden.)
They keep asking for names then stop responding when you give them one. Hilariously unserious people who just want to scream that we have zero other options as loud as possible.
Has Newsom said he wanted the job?
Again, it’s not about a wishlist. I am NOT AGAINST OTHER CANDIDATES.
Just the endless hand-wringing and dropping names of those who don’t want the fucking job.
I like Newsom. If he were the candidate, I’d vote for him. But he isn’t, at least not yet.
Because they don’t want to undermine the party and an incumbent candidate. But, if the party opened it up and asked, “Who wants to be President?,” there’d be a rush like Black Friday.
There were 27 candidates for the nomination in 2020, but none of them are still interested?
Well duh, you think the Democrats are just gonna say “eh, let Trump have it”
OF COURSE the Democrats would step up if they had to. But they don’t want that scenario. That’s the whole point. They want to coalesce behind Biden.
Well yeah, it’s standard bad faith practice to keep getting stuck on ‘name someone’. That question is an obvious mind-trap that stifles the real point no one from the pro Biden camp wants to concede: Biden is an objectively bad candidate that may lose.
This bad faith argument is not their creation, nor does it really matter.
The DNC will not listen to its constituents (let alone a Lemmy thread)and hold a primary to let Democrats choose a different candidate. No one paying any attention believes that.
The argument serves two purposes i think, to skirt around the fact the DNC doesn’t represent us and won’t hold a primary no matter what , and to keep any real discussion of ranked choice or third party voting from even starting.
Because the DNCs plan to run against fascists forever only works if we stay in a FFTP system like this
If you can’t name a candidate, you’re naming Trump.
He still didn’t give a name
They are more scared of losing, than they are of winning. It’s the liberal way.
Yeah im tempted try an “ignore previous instructions” on some of em they’re so insistent, but my father-in-law sounds just like 'em so i know they are actually real people. His first time voting in his whole entire life was in '20 and now that he has “become political” (his words) he feels comfortable lecturing anyone on politics. He will never see how asinine that is or question the narrative the TV tells him. I figure trump brought a lot of people like that out of the woodwork.
Vermin Supreme!
Marianne Williamson. I want President Williamson. She has announced her candidacy. I will gladly support the Democrats if she’s their candidate.
Otherwise, I’ll probably support the Greens.
We’d love to, but Biden killed primaries and caucuses. And there’s not a Democrat in existence that will go up against the DNC’s hand-picked candidate after their behavior over the last decade.
When was the last time an incumbent president held primaries?
This year. Biden, Phillips, Williamson, and Palmer. Biden won all primaries except for the American Samoa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
It’s almost like people aren’t paying attention to what’s happening before bitching about it.
I know right
Those “primaries” were just for show and you know it.
Because no one serious wants to run against an incumbent.
Fixed that for you.
Is this your first election?
Conspiracy theories are a plague.
Nothing conspiratorial about it. Anyone with half a brain could tell from their tradition of not holding a primary at all when there’s an incumbent, as well as their stacking the deck in favor of their chosen candidates in the two previous ones.
You’re acting as if the DNC is a political party that only does what the voters ask for, rather than a for profit private corporation, which is what it’s legally registered as and behaving like.
Biden’s Democratic challengers hit ballot access roadblocks
Bunch of no-names, legally unelectable people and Russian assets have trouble qualifying for the ballot in various states? Sounds like a good thing.
And then when the DNC offered to help them, they rejected the offer? Yeah, totally serious candidates there rofl
That’s not point.
So none of them care enough to speak publicly. Got it.
I wonder how much of it is just undermining Biden. I lump this in with the “just any third party” people. It doesn’t make sense unless your goal is to just undermine Biden to bemoan his situation and the party without rallying behind something more specific. The “just any third party” implies the person is equally stoked about the chances of a Green Party or a Libertarian candidate, which makes no sense given the vastly different platforms.
100% of it. Either directly, or via useful idiots.
I remember when RBG said the same thing. “Who would you rather see on the court other than me?” The answer is literally anyone else who isn’t a christofascist rapist, but they ended up with that one christofascist rapist.
And you’re not able to see the difference between a guaranteed nomination and a national election?
Good luck dragging that corpse past the finish line
Again, name who you think can beat Trump were they to swap in right now. I’m waiting.
JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, perhaps Gavin Newsom. Even Kamala Harris would have a better chance than Biden. Next to no one is voting Democratic because of Biden, people are voting against Trump. You could swap in literally anyone who isn’t 90% corpse and get at least as good a result, and almost certainly better. This idea that people would be turned off the Democrats because Joe Biden wasn’t the candidate is a joke and I don’t understand why anyone would be under the impression.
Yes, Literally anybody! What a silly premise for question… This is Hillary Clinton all over again. Democrats are being force fed the worst possible candidate we can get.
With that said, Kamala Harris is the best answer I think, for logistical reasons. But let her choose a good running mate that may bring some excitement and I think the democratic voters may come out to vote.
This IS Hillary all over again but it’s only because you dumb fucks are choking down obvious propaganda and asking for more. Just like 2016.
I would be willing to believe JB could do it. don’t know enough about Whitmer, think that Newsom has a chance but could just as easily be a Mitt Romney, and personally think you’re a little out to lunch if you actually think Kamala would win when Hilary didn’t.
Post debate polls have had Harris up on Biden in swing states. Could she win? Maybe, maybe not. But it looks like she’d at least lose less badly than Biden. His debate performance was a death blow.
Yeah- and give her 2-3 weeks after announcing and see how those polls shift.
You gotta be insane to think it’d stay fluid and she wouldn’t be in the tank after the Republican spin machine starts going to town on her. JFC
Kamala has been polling better then Biden. the problem isn’t her popularity, it’s Biden looking like he’s died but doctors have refused to call it so they keep dragging him around. he even tried to salvage his debate performance with an interview with Stephanopoulos and still looked dead.
idk if anyone believes he can take another 4 years without the doctors finally calling it and Kamala replacing him anyway. like, people who think Kamala can’t be a better president than TFG would probably vote TFG anyway.
also it’s not like Biden won last time because everybody loves him. no one does. I’ve never seen an actual fan. he won mostly through negative partisanship against TFG.
I actually think he’s a pretty good president, who got a lot done quietly, including getting through some bipartisan stuff (when he didn’t have a majority across both houses) that I don’t think many other people would have managed because he’s gently spoken and not a tub thumping shouter. I think he has a good heart even if his politics are noticeably further to the right than mine.
AOC would be great. She gets it. She understands ordinary people, which is rare in US politics. Biden is pretty good. Not great at all, just pretty good.
I like that he’s not in the news every day (saying something stupid or nasty showing that he doesn’t understand how stuff works or can’t take criticism like Toddler-brained Trump), but the downside of quietly getting on with the job is that people aren’t as aware of what he’s done.
Then you aren’t informed enough to even be talking about this
And yet you want to put Whitmer on a national stage??
No one knows who that is.
Doesn’t want to run.
Doesn’t want to run.
A Black woman? You’re in fucking fantasy land.
I already told you my two requisistes, three if you count having a pulse, you should ask the DNC what people their donors would allow to run. I’m sure they have a list of marketable 45-65 white heirs who would love to keep everything exactly as is they’d support.
So you you have no options within the practical realities of the current system leading up to November? Good to know.
It may also be a little late to introduce a new candidate, unless they have great name recognition. Betcha Bernie 2.0 would mobilize a goodly number of people, while centrists would hold their noses, and just vote for Not Trump.
Bernie isn’t running, and Biden isn’t quitting, so we take what we can get. At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.
Jon Stewart gets it, why can’t you?
Offering to run instead of Biden at this point would basically be political suicide, so it’s no wonder nobody has stepped up. If Biden backs out though the math changes significantly. This is t a very convincing argument.
I dunno I could probably win, not exactly steep competition lol
Democrats can’t name someone until Biden agrees or they have a majority ready to try to force him out. It really is Biden’s decision to step aside. The issue is the polls are saying he should step aside, and it looks like he wants to lose.
No, the pundits are saying he should pull out.
Wrong… the polls are saying he should. Do you want to beat Trump or are you hoping for a miracle?
Dude, anyone. Who in the democratic party is more corrupt than Trump? To paraphrase Biden himself, there are at least fifty people that could win against Trump.
I hope Biden is one of the fifty right now… But I am not certain.
I don’t think the opinion “the man who has control of the nuclear arsenal is showing signs of senility and should not serve another 4 years regardless of who replaces him” is not an unreasonable one
When the current only alternative is someone with clearly worse faculties and intentions, it obviously fucking is. Again, name who you think can beat him. Go ahead. Take into account the entire current political climate. We’ll wait.
this is kinda a ridiculous request. The DNC should be the ones actively finding and presenting alternatives. If it was any other election year what if something happened to their primary candidate?
No one publicly shows interest because the party prevents any alternative. Anyone trying to run is accused of trying to break up the party, look at what happened to Bernie.
I advocated for Bernie, during the primaries, when it was time to choose a Democratic candidate. Note that that time is not now. Now is the time where a democratic candidate need to beat Trump. Do you think even swapping Bernie in now that he could beat Trump?
This question broke me. If the left-leaning voting population of the USA can’t support a single candidate against freaking Trump except Biden then we deserve whatever disaster occurs. That’s embarrassing. Truly childish levels of spitefulness.
Or just that some people dont have any problem supporting Biden right now. Internet’s full of loud assholes during on hills, thats what makes you successful here.
Not trying to question your motives here (seriously, I’m not) but I grimace hearing “we’re only months away from the election, we couldn’t possibly make changes now” because it has a perverse similarity to the argument Mitch McConnell used to ratfuck his way into an extra SC justice. And we all know how that turned out.
If you can’t see the difference, that should be an indicator that perhaps your opinions are not very well informed.
The Polymarket prediction markets gives odds for who will win the presidential election and who will win the democratic nominee. We can compare the odds of each candidate and use Bayes Theorem to determine their chances of winning the presidency if they secure the DNC nomination.
Here’s the results as of posting this comment:
Joe Biden: 27% Kamala Harris: 50% Michelle Obama: 100% Gavin Newsom: 66% Other: 50%
Obviously this doesn’t work perfectly (the Michelle Obama example especially is bizarre), but there is over $300M behind these numbers so people seem to think they’re at least somewhat accurate.
TLDR: there is a lot of money that thinks Joe Biden is one of the worst options
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/09/biden-polling-debate-trump
That information doesn’t change anything I’ve said. He can be “trailing trump” and still not be the best candidate the dems could have
I think there are people on the fence (who generally decide the election) who would be swayed by Biden’s apparent dementia
I disagree. My logic is as follows:
Premise 1. Joe Biden cannot beat Trump
Premise 2: Virtually any other democrat can beat Trump
Conclusion: If we want to beat Trump, Biden should step down and be replaced by virtually any other Democrat
You say he can’t beat Trump, but he already beat healthcare, so who knows what else he can beat
It was Medicare, but I understood this reference.
Why can’t Joe beat Trump? Because he seems old and confuses things? You think that’s why people are voting for Trump?
I’ll gladly take old and confused over actively malicious
Don’t forget that the actively malicious option is also old and confused as well.
I mean, if you look at track records, Biden already beat Trump in 100% of previous elections.
And he will keep winning until he loses.
Because last time he beat Trump it was because Covid was the top worry and of course people want the party that promotes health care over Trump when their biggest fear is a global pandemic. Now peoples fears are money. You run the same campaign you ran in 2020 and you’ll lose.
Biden only beat Trump the first time around because of historic voter turnout. Voters just aren’t as enthusiastic to keep Trump out this year.
Self fulfilling prophesy.
Yes. There’s partisans who vote Trump no matter what, but there’s also a pretty large number of “low information voters”. Rather than being necessarily dumb, many of these are people from all kinds of different walks of life who just don’t follow politics that closely and prefer to follow things like dating reality shows or sports instead. These people are not really aware of what happened on Jan 6 other than that there was some sort of riot at the Capitol. They know Trump was charged with a bunch of crimes, but don’t know if they were real crimes or just politics. And when these people see Trump lying confidently and Joe Biden being barely intelligible in response, they like Trump better.
It sucks, yes. But it’s reality. Democrats need someone who can answer Trump forcefully. Or they will lose.