At least 2 previously undecided voters now support Biden so I suppose this headline is technically correct, it’s just completely meaningless and insignificant statistically.
This comment says it better than I could. The debate was a disaster for Biden. Which sucks.
Samples size of a focus group on Univision…
It did quote a poll that Biden is only up 1% among Latino voters tho
Fucking insane that it’s that close. But I guess when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies, it’s hard to get them scared of trump.
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If you want democrats to win, you shouldn’t delude yourself with this stupid article that takes the opinion of one undecided voter (asked out of a group of about a dozen people) and pretend this is something that applies to undecided voters at large. This is copium on the level of 2016 and we’d all be better off if we didn’t huff this bullshit. We should be taking steps to improve our chances, not gaslighting ourselves.
I don’t consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, although unless things change drastically in American politics, I can’t see myself ever voting Republican by the time I’m dead and gone. With that said, I mentioned to someone yesterday that if I didn’t have the experience of living through Trump’s time in office, this debate would make me seriously consider voting for him.
I really don’t believe that this debate is going to sway many undecided voters toward Biden. If you compare their performance at face value, Trump was unusually well-spoken, and Biden seemed like he belonged in a nursing home. Half of what Trump said was complete bullshit, but how many undecided voters are actually reading articles that show how full of it he really is?
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
I don’t dislike Biden, but my personal opinion is that the best thing he could do for the country is step aside and let a different Democrat take the nomination. Geriatrics like Trump and Biden need to retire, do whatever they feel like in their golden years, and let someone else take the reins. A competent politician in his 50s or 60s would absolutely destroy Trump, and that’s exactly what we need right now.
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
to be fair to Biden, he wasn’t all there. I mean, he had a cold, and if that doesn’t fog things up, the medications would.
But, I feel like somebody on his Campaign programing team should have pointed out that if the win-conditions for a successful debate is literally staying alive (see John Olliver rant,) that there wasn’t really much to be gained by it in the first place. it’s not like we don’t know their positions. we’ve already had 4 years of these guys. (well, 3.5 for biden. close enough for politics.)
I don’t trust Newsweek, you probably shouldn’t either. However, with that being said… if the debate would have gone differently, and let’s just say Joe had a bad sore throat instead of “a cold,” and Joe went up there and said nothing at all, he’d still have my vote in this election. Honestly, I think if Joe would have said nothing, and just let Trump lie, that would have been better than how it went.
He appeared as weak, and a bit incoherent up there. He resorted to name calling on multiple occasions.
Trump lied about 90% of the things he said. Trump sounded better, and didn’t really take the cheap shots at Biden that we expected.
There was nothing about that debate that would have swayed “undecided voters” (who’s that by the way) to vote FOR Biden as a result of the debate. The number of lies coming from Trump may have persuaded some people to vote against him however.
Idk why you mention the trustworthiness of Newsweek. This is an article about a Univision focus group.
You don’t know why I mention Newsweek when the link for the post goes to Newsweek?
This would be like me saying not to trust the OP because he posted the link. Figure it out, bud.
So what you’re saying is that you saw the link was Newsweek, and then decided to read it anyway, instead of dismissing anything in it as potentially non-credible.
That’d be like if someone lied to you their whole life, but you believe them this time because they’re citing DailyMail.
Nah, that’s not a good metaphor. Do better.
That’s a weak attempt at trolling. Try harder.
What kind of head in the sand, wishy-washy troglodyte is undecided for this election? We’ve already had 4 years of each, with 24 hour news coverage for literally everything they do.
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
"A majority (60%) think the U.S. should increase spending on social programs and increase taxes on businesses and wealthy Americans.
This survey finds no evidence that a rightward ideological shift would solve Biden’s problems with swing voters. Swing voters broadly think Biden needs to take more action to solve our country’s problems and broadly lean left on economic and social issues. Only 16% say that Biden being “too liberal” is a reason they might not vote for him.
The top two issues swing voters select as actions that would make them definitely vote for Biden are raising taxes on the wealthy (23%) and raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour (18%)."
Young people are fucking stupid then if they think trump gets them anywhere nearer their goals.
Source- I was a dumb youth in my day. Vote for the car that gets you closest to your destination, not farther away from it. And definitely don’t abstain and then complain after the fact that things are worse.
The DNC needs to accept that this is the group they need to go after… And accept it for what it is, not think they’re magically going to change… Convince Biden to drop out and nominate a progressive if they want to win.
I suppose that would make sense. Trump doubled down on tax cuts for the wealthy and burning the hell out of fossil fuels. So even if someone were oblivious to his lying, and Trump was able to “perform” more confidently, the end result were policies with grave implications. Also, on the one weak point with progressives, falling to protect Palestinians, Trump’s criticism was that Biden wasn’t pro Israel hard enough…
“One weak point” as in progressive’s only weak argument, or as in the only thing Biden is weak on that they want?
Because there are quite a few other things Biden is weak on that progressives want.
Perhaps an oversimplification, but I’d say it’s the one point that progressives are so pissed that they would tend to forget that the other likely choice would rather see more genocide. On other points I’d say progressives may wish for better, but are willing to be more pragmatic for now.
It’s too bad those voters never show up.
They show up more than millennials, x, or boomers did at that age
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
I mean I know the young are generally ignorant by the simple fact of their age and lack of experience, but in what universe do they think that’s an option? Maybe like 2 years ago we could have pushed for something, but now? It’s Trump or Biden. Being undecided is just saying you don’t know which of those two you would vote for, any other vote is just a vote for the person you like least to win.
The Dems could still push Biden to drop out and replace him with someone who might actually have a chance
Generously, people who were 14-16yo when Trump’s first term ended and weren’t fully aware of what was going on at the time.
Realistically, a large portion of ‘mainstream’ Republicans embarrassed by what the GOP has become - but still not certain if they can go against decades of Fox News programming and vote for a shudders Democrat.
New voters who never cared about politics previously, and may have just started paying attention when they to college and realized everyone there does. There’s a precedent for that being the case at least heh
I feel like this implies the youth vote matters anywhere, and the one thing we all know is young people don’t vote.
Yeah, that’s why all these college campuses have had protests. They don’t care.
That’s not something new, young people traditionally have strong political opinions and fail to turn out for elections. Even in presidential elections, which are the highest turnout for the demographic, you’re looking at maybe 40% in the standard year. Turnout was better during COVID when tensions were high and there was a lot of momentum to get Trump out, but even then it was in the realm of~50%.
Polls are all trash, but this focus group we believe.
No one who saw that debate was inspired by Biden, no one. Ok maybe 1 out of 100, maybe. But 99 of them were not. Gaslighting won’t help, the goose is cooked.
I supported Biden before the debate, I support him now after the debate. But now it’s more of a “Ah fuck, look at this mess I’m going to be voting for, ah fuck what the fuck America aaaaaaah.” Than it was before.
Do you feel like it’s a mess now? I’m not voting for Biden because i think he is a good debater, I’m voting for him because hes done a perfectly fine job as president during some tough times. He’s smart enough to let the systems that have held together for decades continue to function and to take advice from experts.
Trump wants to dismantle the government and fill it with trump loyalists, which adds even more incentive to make sure Biden wins.
It’s like you didn’t even read the article or what they said and are trying to pretend they said something else. Amazing that you would pull the term “gaslighting” out, it’s almost as if you know what you are doing.
To reiterate he article, they were turned off by Trump’s lies and repeating the same things and avoiding the questions. None says they were inspired by Biden.
Did you read the article? Here’s a quote:
The clip shows a group of about a dozen people and one of them being interviewed by a journalist.
So you think this can be applied broadly to undecided voter sentiment in general?
Lol did you? It literally cites a single voter and a poll showing Trump trending better among Latinos than previous electoral performances for that demographic. Nothing in this article actually warranted the headline and meta polls show Trump still ahead. Delusion will only hand us another 4 years of Trump
You fighting to sow discord against the only viable alternative is working to get Trump, pointing out that regular people found reason to prefer his responses over Trump and highlighting what they are is useful in helping people highlight the many advantages of Biden.
Yes he’s not as energetic as a lunatic, probably because he’s a sensible human that’s been working hard on his lifelong goal of improving the society he lives in and pushing through sensible and practical reforms that actually help real people and put the nation on track to deal with the many challenges it faces going forward.
Criticizing Biden right now is not “working to get Trump”. Biden could easily step down and get behind an alternative candidate. These things aren’t black and white when we’re still like 4-5 months out from the election.
So nice job of not addressing the fact that you didn’t read the article and nothing I said indicated that I’m trying to sow discord. I will vote for Biden and argue that others should as well
But pretending that the debate helped that cause is worthless. We are losing and pretending we are not doesn’t help. Stop fighting with people pointing out reality and be more vocal on why to vote for Biden.
FR FR
One of those “Vote for me because I’m not my opponent” moments.
I learned absolutely nothing new from the debate. Trump is a habitual liar and Biden is a doddering old man. Out of our two wonderful choices I’ll be voting Democrat but I still wouldn’t trust either of them to drive a car I’m in let alone run the country.
Agreed. How about the other guy? Was anybody inspired by him?
I’m really sad that it’s come to this. It’s how I feel when my coworkers vote to go out to a sushi restaurant. I don’t like fish and I’m allergic to shellfish, so I eat my pile of steamed rice and bite my tongue when they want to split the bill equally.
What was I talking about again?
I was thinking the debate rules actually saved Trump from his worst impulses. Biden was allowed to speak at full length and Trump gets to appear like he can participate in a civilized conversation while Biden would sometimes go off the rails while trying to fill his time. A lot of his embarrassments started in a decent place, but pivoted badly in the middle.
Trump confidently lied repeatedly without consequences, and so long as someone is unaware that it’s lies, I could imagine them finding Trump’s rhetoric credible that night.
You have a very interesting point about the muted mics actually being in Trump’s favor while simultaneously allowing Biden to ramble like Grandpa Simpson.
The problem is the only people saying this are people who have been saying the same things for the whole time and are desperate for it to ve true so it’s hard to believe them, it’s not coming from my friends that weren’t yelling about Biden every excuse they got.
It’s like thuderfoots recent starliner stream, he predicted it would fail and spent the whole time saying ‘oh shit, here it goes… looks like it’s going to explode…’ even when both bits were returned safely he was calling the spaceX staff morons for celebrating because he was so desperate to be right.
People wanted Biden to fail because then they could push their brand of politics but he’s doing great based on actual metrics, so they try to make him fail using opion and tone setting behavior - the exact way Trump beat Hillary, memed that she was bad until no one went to vote.
What? I wanted Biden to succeed. And he wasn’t doing good in the metrics, his approval ratings were bad, being other dems who are way ahead of him in polls. He was tied with Trump, which is insane given how bad of a candidate Trump is. Most all voters (65% I think) thought he was too old before the debate and wanted another choice.
What will they think now?
yeah but I bet they were suddenly worried
No, but Trump blatantly lying about everything, and refusing to admit that he was convicted possibly did turn some “undecided” voters away from him. This election isn’t so much voting for Biden, as it is against Trump. Or for Trump for the idiots that vote for the felon.
Oh good, I guess Biden has absolutely nothing to worry about then…
Democrats will continue to act like he’s gonna coast into office by virtue of not being Trump. They will continue to ignore all warnings from their left. And they will blame the left when he loses. It’s the 2016 playbook all over again.
I guess it depends on what you mean by Democrats. There were some quite high ranked people openly critical and suggesting replacing him (more than I would expect). Dems are not a singular entity… but the only person with the power to replace the candidate at this point in time is Joe Biden himself. So if he doesn’t step down I do expect most high-ranked Dems to fall in line.
If he loses. Maybe the complacent non-voters learned something. No thanks to the Ds, but neither Trump nor Biden winning is a done deal
Any lesson they might learn is a one way trip to hell with no way back
If he loses? What’s he doing to win? Which group of voters is he trying to pick up? Netanyahu can’t vote for him. Republicans won’t vote for him no matter how many of their policies he adopts.
Centrist Democrats alone aren’t enough. No matter how large a majority they think they command.
Leftists who aren’t completely brain-dead will of course vote for his administration.
Calling people braindead is a great way to win them over.
I don’t think winning you over was their goal.
I’m not even one of the people they’re talking about, since I intend to vote for Biden.
Undecided Latino voters specifically according to the article. I don’t think that should be too surprising based on the lies Trump was spewing about illegal immigration.
It’s so stupid that there are “undecided” latino voters at this point. As if it wasn’t enough to know that Trump was a liar when he mentioned that Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists back then?
This is literally a new article about an X post where they’re interviewing some Latinos… Objectively, the cope is insane. Joe is fucked
Yeah this is reporting on the feedback from a focus group of like 20 people conducted by some Latino TV station… Not sure how representative that is of the wider electorate…
Ok let’s see how the polls move. If they move in the right direction, Biden stays on. If they move in the direction everyone knows they’ll move in, he steps down. Deal?
There will be no negotiations. You will accept what the DNC… your betters… puts forward to you. You will bow and kiss the oldest moldiest feet in human existence.
Now stand up and clap. And you will smile. Bigger now… I see you’re not smiling big enough after placing your vote. Sorry, it’s too late for you… you are now antisemetic and you are 110% responsible for the Republicans installing a authoritarian government.
Don’t forget to chant "Joe Biden is the most labor friendly president in history " 20 times every time when you wake up.
As a decided Joe Biden voter I am confused but I thank you.
In this thread:
Everyone not on the Right doing what they do best:
Argue incessantly with one another.
And ya’ll wonder why the Left struggles so often.
Not arguing among each other is what helped turn the party of Lincoln to what it is today.
I think its a social defense mechanism, I met an old bastard who saw it in full swing after Catalonia when he was a teen. When a bunch of unions where he lived purged out authoritarian elements especially if they sympathized with the Soviets. Basically use debate to figure out who is stupid, lying, or compromised so that you can deal with them. Such things are helped along by it being a semi-constant force.
Democratic party would crush it if only they replaced Biden with a younger candidate. I’m telling you, even republicans might switch over and vote democrat if this happens.
Lol, have you seen a Republican recently?
Yes, have you?? I actually happen to live amongst them, which may sound exotic to some Lemmings.
“I hate Trump, but Joe is a walking corpse” is not an uncommon sentiment.
Are they aware that even an almost-corpse could follow their advisors and therefore end up having an effective presidency? As long as Biden doesn’t start doing random senile shit (and be realistic, he’s far from that)
To a lot of these voters it’s not about having a logical cabinet nor even policy. It’s the individual as a character representing our nation, and to them Trump is better spoken than Biden even if what most of he says has little basis in reality.
This is why Obama had such a good time with swing voters, it’s not really about the policies from what I see. I’m shocked no party since 2008 has tried running a younger candidate. I’d love to see someone younger debate Trump. Like Pete Buttigieg for example. Like ya he’s still a career politician, but I suspect he’d do much better at making the insane stuff Trump says sound insane.
If they haven’t changed their minds yet, then they aren’t going to. It’s time to try someone different.
Besides, you’re not even needing Republican votes. You just need undecided votes and to energize democratic voters who hate both candidates with age being a big factor.
The presidency needs to be reframed. It’s not some position of ultimate power. Presidents have far less control than the general public thinks, or the media would have you believe.
To get anything lasting done you need all three branches working together and with this court, and congress…
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris. So it’s either him or her.
Still certain Democrats would crush it without Biden?
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris.
I’ve tried to verify that this is the case and can’t find evidence anywhere. Can you point me to a source? I was under the impression that they’d be expected to turn to her, but that they’re not required to.
Edit: After lengthy back and forth, it finally became clear that this is simply an opinion. User has absolutely no proof.
They aren’t required. But Biden/Harris delegates aren’t chosen randomly, they are Democrats who have demonstrated loyalty towards Biden and Harris and have personally pledged to support them.
But they’re not “Biden/Harris delegates”. They’re Biden delegates, as he was the only name on the ballot. Are you just saying they’ll go with her out of deference?
Fair point. I think they would absolutely go with Harris. Partly out of deference, partly because she would remain in control of the Biden/Harris $100 million warchest and ground operations org, partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states, and partly because Democrats need to campaign on women’s rights and it would look awful to pass over a Black woman.
I also think that Newsom/Whitmer/Beshear/Pritzker et al are not interested in replacing Biden. They will inherit chaos, are very likely to lose in the general, and that will be the end of their presidential aspirations.
partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states
Again, where is your proof of this? Ballots haven’t been finalized anywhere in the country, as Biden isn’t even officially the nominee yet. You keep saying these things as if they’re set in stone, but from what I can tell they’re not. Do you have proof that ballots have been printed before the convention, or that states have closed the registration window for running mates before closing the registration window for candidates?
Note: I agree with the rest of what you said, for the most part.
As you suggest it’s a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.
There was a similar issue in Alabama, but it looks like they just moved their deadline after the convention.
Will someone please come out and say what the problem with Kamala Harris is? I see people hinting about it all the time, but I have no idea what it’s all about.
Her record as DA is problematic for a lot of people. She was labeling herself as a progressive, but then behaved as a conservative. Fought to keep a lot of people in prison for minor offenses, fought to keep the death penalty, etc. While doing that, she had a book out about criminal justice reform… and went against her own advice. Pretty much a lap-dog for conservative criminal justice policy. Overall, blatantly hypocritical to anyone that was paying attention.
Thanks for explaining.
I have a problem with many of her past decisions but, the same goes for Biden. Both are still a significantly better choice than Trump.
It’s because she’s a woman. They’re scared.
It’s certainly true that women who rise to the top of national politics get relentlessly, negatively caricatured (Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). With Kamala Harris it’s different because a lot of the murmuring comes from Democrats and they never say why.
